Johnson
8:33 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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I did post about football, I said you know NOTHING about it as you often prove.
Mainly by wanting to drop someone rated 9/10 in other quarters, that's not very positive now is it?
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,
8:32 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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From today's Daily Mirror.
Lanzini 5
Created little of note and was subbed with 16 minutes left.
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,
8:29 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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melty once again not posting about football on a football thread.
Posting anything positive is not for him.
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Johnson
8:29 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Someone's had a drink...
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Hammer and Pickle
8:26 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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You'll know all about knowing bugger all, Johnson you blue-rinse faggot.
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Johnson
8:20 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Comma knows NOTHING about football, it's not for him.
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Infidel
8:19 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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comma
on another thread there are player ratings from OT:
"Lanzini 9 - another marvellous performance, gives us such fluidity and movement;"
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,
8:05 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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From the eleven that started yesterday I would drop Lanzini, rather than Noble, with Ayew taking his place. Luckily Reid is back but Sakho will be misssed.
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collyrob
7:03 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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We have 7 players to track back and defend, the system is deigned to give payet and lanzini the freedom to attack without the responsibility of tracking back all the time.
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dealcanvey
6:52 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Noble frustrates me because he is not as technically gifted as some of our other players, I do get that.
But then again even the likes of Lanzini and Payet frustrate me when they dont track back and defend.
For some reason that is never pointed out on here. Some people dont appreciate the defensive side of the game. Both need to be taken into account and that is why Noble complements our attacking midfielders well.
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dealcanvey
6:48 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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tnb 5:38 Mon Nov 28
You need the right balance. Another fancy footed player replacing Noble in the middle of the park, even if that player was as good as Lanzini/Payet would not make us better. Noble does the nitty gritty hard work so the likes of Lanzini/Payet dont have to.
He is an asset to the team. Who can we replace him with that would do a better job and not cost 30 million?
Need to be realistic. Unfortunately not many hammers fans are these days.
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Sir Alf
6:39 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Infidel 3:37 Mon Nov 28
Always about opinions an perception I suppose :) I agree he had some "eye catching" performances last season and contributed with a few important goals which made him a favourite but even last season he would have games where he went missing or was peripheral. He is a big unit and you would think able to impose himself in games even when we were struggling for possession.This season he started that way too and in a team that was shipping goals we needed him to do the defensive stuff well and help with closing down. In the home games I watched him in, he was looking on from way up the pitch having made his box to box run or having gone down the flanks and lost it.
But that is just one concern with him as a long term answer in central midfield. His passing and technique (control / first touch) and ability to be involved in close interplay and quick passing moves is not of the required standard. He was a centre back by trade and historically and his asset is in the challenge etc. He has been excellent in the back 3.
His pass completion rate is pretty poor even last year. Not what we want long term. All that said, we do miss his engine as another attacking option at times, well the engine and power of last season's Kouyate. To me he is more Diame than Pogba in a midfield role and can go missing.
Just my opinion and I would be happy to be proved wrong and given a good "canning" on here (ooh err) if he returns to midfield and consistently produces chances and goals and great defensive work and pressing :-)
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Mart O
5:45 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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dealcanvey 5:10 Mon Nov 28
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tnb
5:38 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Deal,
Don't get me wrong, I like Noble and for various - perhaps not all footballing - reasons would be gutted if he left.
But let's not forget that after the '19th century football' Chelsea game under BFS that Matty Taylor was being lauded in the press for covering a massive amount of ground.
Not always an indicator of quality in itself.
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dealcanvey
5:10 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Covered more ground than any other player in Premier league this weekend. What he lacks in technical ability he makes up for in sheer tenacity and effort. We would be worse without him. We already regret the loss of Tomkins dont let Noble be the same regret.
We should be keeping hold of English players who know what it really means to be part of this club. Not replacing them with random foreigners who in no doubt will not be much better than what we have already got.
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Spandex Sidney
4:46 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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I've been saying most of the season that Noble will go the way of Tomkins come the summer. Actually Palace would be a good shout if Pardew stays there, which is looking shaky at the moment.
He better start roaring up Steve Mandanda's budgerigar soon while he can.
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tnb
4:05 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Noble has, as has been pointed out, been the first name on the teamsheet or thereabouts for pretty much every manager he has had since Pardew. So he can't be as awful as some people make out.
BUT as the OP suggests, there does come a point where we have to ask whether we need an upgrade to progress.
The problem for me is that maybe the time to address that was last season - after a good season, on a high, pushing forward. The time to look to upgrade on a player who rightly or wrongly has assumed a great importance among the squad is NOT when you are struggling. At the end of this season, if things improve? Maybe.
For me the biggest issue with Noble is and always has been that I'm still not quite sure what kind of player he is. As a youngster he was a proper 'box to box' midfielder verging on being quite attacking - linking up with Tevez, and around the same time captaining England u21s to a final almost as a number 10. Time has told that he is not actually up to that job, although towards the end of last season he actually had some success when Bilic gave him a slightly more attacking remit. But his goal return from open play over several years has been pretty woeful - and even deeper lying midfielders usually score a few over a season.
In an attempt to solve this conundrum, he has been played more as a 'defensive' midfielder for some time now - and yet he is still prone to giving away the odd silly free kick in a dangerous position and lacks the pace to really excel in this role either, in the way that Kante does for an obvious recent example. And while you can get away with being the best passer in a team in that position even if your tackling isn't perfect, he's not really that either any more - the likes of Alonso and even Song when he could be bothered don't get the praise they do for aimless sideways and crossfield passes, rather it is the incisive and actually often shorter forward passes that make the difference. Noble very rarely seems to have that in his armoury.
Noble offers quite a bit of a lot, but isn't ideal or anymore even the best option at any of those things. In fact, it would even be difficult to say what kind of player would 'replace' him if he goes as - and maybe this is the key thing we need to be asking - do we really need another Noble, or would we be better off leaving the defensive responsibilities to Obiang for example and the more attacking stuff to Lanzini (who I still feel could end up as a central midfielder pushing forwards)?
Still, we do need a second body in central midfield at present and he is a better option than Nortveidt (clearly) and a more experienced one than Fernandes. It's the latter who I would be feeling breathing ominously down my neck if I were Noble. This is all assuming Kouyate stays at the back in a 5, but I feel he has improved immensely there from his occasionally brilliant but erratic if hardworking midfield performances, at least under Bilic. But if we do go back to a back 4, then Kouyate and Obiang clearly trump Noble at this point.
For me, with a 5 at the back the ideal is a 5-3-2 with the third central midfielder pushing forwards. As mentioned above, I feel that may be Lanzini's eventual best position. But that would leave no space for Payet (who as great as he is, lacks what Lanzini has to play centrally with more responsibility) and so with the current squad makeup we are wedded to a 5-4-1 with Lanzini and Payet wide.
Obiang with Payet and Lanzini worked against Tottenham but will not work every week and I agreed with Bilic tightening it up yesterday. Lanzini wide cannot contribute defensively (and I don't mean tackling per se, but pressing and breaking the lines once possession is won). Add to that the fact we have overstocked the squad with wingers and it is clear that we are looking at a central midfield 2 for the forseeable. Noble is currently the best option for the second of those places, but it is a place which could perhaps be better utilised with a player who offers a bit more.
And there is the issue...because in that system you need one of the two to be able to push on and join attacks when in possesion. Obiang can't do that, partly because he can't trust Noble to cover all the space left behind. And Noble doesn't seem to have the legs or perhaps the confidence to do so.
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Infidel
3:37 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Disagree on Kouyate.
I thought he was HOTY last season, as did several others.
Has been played in several different positions by Bilic and always looked quality to me.
His interception yesterday to nick the ball off Zlatan when Ginge had nodded it into his path is typical of him. He reads the game well and anticipates.
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theaxeman
2:55 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Alf
I think Kouyate is ok in midfield, he has been excellent there for us until this season. Haven't got a clue what happened to the whole team this season they have been collectively shit!
Van Dijk is superb, wish we had signed him
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Pedro
2:46 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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In fairness about 3 of his free kicks created stuff yesterday; sadly all for Man Utd.
Why he persisted with the short backwards or sideways balls will never know. They were all misplaced and led to counter attacks. Get the ball in the box for god sake!
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Sir Alf
2:43 Mon Nov 28
Re: Noble thanks mate but your time is up.
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Axe - personally (my opinion) Kouyate is not good enough technically (passing completion is very poor when in midfield) and does not track back or press anything like enough. So technically not of the requisite quality, when he is not in possession, does not do enough. The latter problem could be solved I guess by coaching but he looks like a converted CB when it comes to the technical side of the game. He is not like that Van Dirk geezer at Southampton. He could play in midfield or defence although again better suited to the back 4. Btw, he will go to a bigger club in the Summer. Best CB I have seen this season.
Having said all this, Kouyate might be a better option for the short term in midfield but what I am trying to say (badly) is that he is not the answer longer term.
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